She has been dubbed the “Sales Slayer” because she helps women entrepreneurs who have a message they want to shake the world with but feel like they would rather stab themselves in the eye with a dull pencil than to be aggressive and sleazy in their sales approach. Indira believes that you dictate your income as an entrepreneur through two things – your mindset, and mastery at sales.
Join us on the podcast as we discuss building relationships with potential clients, closing sales, self-belief and how much you should give away for free. If you’re in any business, this advice is going to make a huge difference to how you approach selling and have you making a shit ton of money in no time, if you put the work in.
Welcome to Love Your Living, a podcast for ambitious women who choose to have it all. Learn how to achieve the massive success you’ve been dreaming of in your business and your personal life. Here’s your host, multiple six-figure business owner and a life stylist, Brooke Keeling.
Welcome to the Love Your Living podcast, where we get real in talking about ambition and growth and the reality of it. So today, I am so excited because I have a friend, a fellow masterminder of mine, and she is going to be talking about all things sales.
So please help me welcome Indira Pierrot. Indira Pierrot is a former stockbroker, network marketer, a current entrepreneur who assists six and seven figure entrepreneurs in their sales calls and processes. She has been dubbed the Sales Slayer because she helps women entrepreneurs sell more, slay more, sleaze less.
She believes you dictate your income as an entrepreneur through two things; mindset and sales mastery. She has a relationship-based approach to sales because that is what true sales mastery is; sharing and serving with an audience you grow and nurture.
Brooke: Hey, Indira, thank you so much for being here with me today.
Indira: Hey, hey, hey, how’s it going?
Brooke: It is going Great. So I am so excited because, obviously, this is my world. Sales is my world. I run a real estate business and you and I, I feel like, we just have this get-shit-done kind of mentality and attitude and so many people in whatever business that they’re in – I mean, in almost all businesses, you have to sell something, right? You have to have a service or a product or something you have to sell.
Indira: Yes, that’s the lifeblood of every business. That’s what I say.
Brooke: Yeah, and what I’ve been telling my team a lot recently and what we see is that, you know, no one likes to be sold. They want to work with someone they like, know, and trust for one thing, but they don’t want to be sold. So tell me a little bit about what you do, how you work with your clients. Let’s start there.
Indira: So what I do, I help women entrepreneurs to sell more, slay more, and sleaze less. And my approach to sales is very relationship-based, so I’m not really, you know, into the sleazy, icky, hardcore sales, even though I feel like sales is service, so there really is no such thing as hardcore sales. It’s just a matter of people not taking the time to build up enough relationship first before they make the offer. So that’s basically how I work with my clients. I help them to develop sales processes that are comfortable for them and relationship-based, as opposed to following a certain template or a certain script or something like that. it’s more organic, more natural, and from that they end up getting more repeat sales because people will definitely buy more often from someone they are in a relationship with. So that’s me. That’s my approach.
Brooke: Yeah, so I love this. You said a few things here that hit home with me big time. So I started in my real estate business seven years ago and probably two years in, I had started on the path of finding a coach and getting into real estate specific coaching. And it’s the same thing, there are scripts everywhere for what to say on the phones and how to build your business up and what I realized – I followed it to a tee – and what I realized with not only phoning or selling, but everything in my business, you have to have this authentic piece. Like, you have to be able to really believe in what you’re selling and what your voice is around whatever that product or service is that you’re selling because one person’s script isn’t going to work for everyone.
Indira: Exactly, exactly, and that’s why it’s so important to let stuff flow, you know, as a natural conversation, as an organic, you know, the natural result of what you do, because when you do that, you don’t have to worry about a script or you don’t have to worry about saying the right thing. Also, a lot of times, you don’t have to deal with as much objections because since people have gotten to know you, they kind of know what you’re about and they’re kind of pursuing you. So instead of you chasing people down, it’s more you’re attracting people towards what you have to offer. So definitely, I’m not – I have processes for everything, but I wouldn’t say, like, okay, this is the exact way that you have to follow in order to get a sale, because just like with human relationships with your partner, all relationships are different. They’re not going to be the same. So each situation or each circumstance that you get into with a person in sales is going to be a little bit different than the one before. So that’s why I say I use a relationship-based approach.
Brooke: For sure. So we use scripts all the time in our business and actually it’s a tool that I’ve just put out for some people too, and I do think that really understanding your client first and understanding what questions to ask is really important. So even with scripts – we use scripts every day in our business, but I’ve used scripts that have taken out that sleaze a little bit more. So it’s kind of like your bullet points that you go through with topics of conversation and asking questions. It’s kind of being able to internalize them and then turn them around and make them your own and in your own voice.
Indira: Right, and that goes back to what I was saying. I have processes for everything, but I don’t necessarily – like in your situation, you’re saying that you’re talking to someone with a script, like you can tell by the gage of a conversation how it is heading, what are the appropriate questions. Like you don’t follow exactly – you know what I mean, like you can kind of common sense know, okay this is probably not a question that I should ask, and you just move on to the next thing. So it’s definitely okay and I encourage you to have a process for what you do, but err with common sense. Like, if you feel like, in the sales conversation, maybe this is just, you know, asking too much, or you can kind of tell from the vibe of the person…
Brooke: They just answered the previous question and you ask that same question because you’re not really listening to it, right?
Indira: Exactly, so definitely on that.
Brooke: So, one of the other things that you also talked on and touched on was relationship building. Again, I’m all about this. We call it building rapport; like you have to build a rapport with someone before you can sell them anything. So tell me a little bit about how you teach on that, how important that is when you’re working with people that aren’t necessarily comfortable in the whole sales world.
Indira: Right, so as far as building rapport, it really just depends, like, on the industry, I would say, because if you are dealing with people in a coaching or online type of environment or even in a network marketing type of environment, even real estate I would say, you build rapport through your content. So you’re putting out names that are of value to people that are helping them solve a specific problem. And because they come to know you as that, then they start to listen to you more on what you have to say and it’s basically a process of showing up consistently wherever it is that you want to publish this particular content. But it’s just a matter of showing up consistently in those forums and having people come to mind with, “Oh, okay, that’s Indira, okay, she does sales. Okay, that’s Brooke, she works with personal development.” You know what I mean? It’s like, you come to mind when I’m thinking about this certain particular issue that I have and the reason that you come to mind is because of the content that you’ve been putting out that’s actually been helping me in the past. And usually, with relationship building, people by human nature, if someone continues to support us, we want to by nature give back. Most of us are not born selfish. So if your content is giving people what I call a quick win, that’s like, “Oh that’s Brooke, that’s my girl right there. That’s Indira, that’s my girl right there…” so they’re more keen to hear what you have to say.
So, one of the main things that I would say in building a relationship would be your content. If, for example, you’re in a situation where you’re doing sales in an actual physical environment or on the phone, then you build relationships just through the conversation, setting expectations. Like, hey, I’m not in here trying to dig in your pockets, just establishing things that you guys have in common before you move forward. And there are a number of ways that you can do that to kind of take the pressure off of the situation, because there are certain circumstances that people find themselves in and they know they’re going to be sold, obviously, by the nature of where they’re at. But it’s just a matter of, like, hey, even though that may or may not happen, you still will leave the situation with value. And I think, once that happens, then it makes the sales process that much easier.
Brooke: So, building rapport through finding things in common, giving value through content, whatever it is that your ideal client is likely looking for. Like, what value can you give them in that space? And one of the other things that you said is showing up consistently. So in this world of I want it all now and yesterday, I think so many of us can get caught up in, oh I’m going to do this quick thing and then I’m going to have a bazillion clients, or I tried this and it doesn’t work, which – you have to show up. You have to show up consistently for – I feel like you have to do the work, right? Like you have to put in the time and you have to do the work. You can’t just expect, like, I’m going to do this quick little thing. I used to do this. When I first started, I used to do this with a couple of mailers, like I’m going to put a flyer out in all my neighbor’s mailboxes, and I’m going to have so many clients.
It doesn’t work that way. Like, the statistics on email versus mail versus now it’s all social media, but even on social media, you have to show up consistently in front of people in order to build rapport. I don’t know, you could probably tell me this, but it’s so much easier to get in front of people, but now, there’s so much going on and there’s so much coming at us in all directions in terms of social media and online marketing that you almost have to show up twice as much in order to get people attention.
Indira: Right, I would say – one of the things I neglected to say too is that in showing up consistently, one of the reasons why that works is, if we think about it in normal day to day relationships, if you were to only talk to your husband once a week…
Indira: You know what I mean? And then if, let’s say, he wanted to make some things happen, you’d be like, “I haven’t talked to you since Monday, no, sir. Get your hand off of me…” or whatever. And it’s the same situation. If you’re not showing up every day in some form – everybody has a different way of going about it, but if you’re not showing up consistently, that’s how your audience feels. Like, “I only just heard from you once this week. I’m not your personal ATM. When you want to sell something, that’s when you have conversations from me…” type of thing. So that’s why I really focus on the relationship-based approach because a lot of times, things that we do that don’t necessarily make sense sales-wise, when you shift it into a normal day to day dating relationship or friendship, it makes perfect sense. You can make a lot of shifts, like, “Oh that makes sense now.” You know what I mean?
So That’s what I said, you wouldn’t, as a parent, spend time with your child on Monday and then ask them to do something on Friday. It’s like, “Okay, but, mom, where have you been like all week? I haven’t heard from you.” That child is not really going to readily do what you say, and so it’s the same in your sales relationships. It’s the same, that’s why consistency is so important, because you don’t know at what point in the journey people are finding you for the first time either. So the more consistent you are, the better you have a chance at selling. And especially when we talk about, like, any type of business that you’re doing online, the more consistent you are, the more you will have better chances of selling because, again, you don’t know at what point people found you in the journey. Somebody might have just shared your content yesterday. So if you only show up every couple of days or so…
Brooke: I think this is a question that comes up too. I know it has for me. Like when you are doing things online or if you are sending out emails to people or it’s like, how much is too much? And you always get the answer, for me when I ask that question is, it’s not too much. If people aren’t in that space, like, they’ll delete it out, but as long as you’re giving good content and you’re showing up, you shouldn’t necessarily worry about over-bombarding people.
Indira: I totally agree, and again, it all goes back to relationship. If you’re my best friend or you’re my boyfriend or my husband or my kid or whatever, I’m never going to feel like you call me too much. And if I do, then I just won’t open the email. But I think sometimes, a lot of times, if you put that energy out there that you’re an intrusion…
Brooke: Then your people are probably going to feel it. It’s going to come across in your conversations.
Indira: It’s going to come across, right, so just like it comes naturally to call your friends or to call your partner or whoever that’s important in your life, your parents, on a very consistent and regular basis, it should be the same for your audience because you’re in a relationship with them too.
Brooke: Sure, whether it be emails – I mean, for us too, we do a lot of calls as well. So calls, emails, everything, the more that you can provide value and check in with people, I’ve always found that they appreciate it. And sometimes, if I’m following up with people, I might not hear back from them for three weeks, but then all of a sudden when they need something or I send them something that’s relevant or whatever, then they respond back always.
Brooke: So it’s all about giving value – how do you help people understand what value it is that they give and what’s enough value? What’s too much value? Like, if I give them too much are they just going to do it on their own, you know? What’s enough, what’s not enough, what is value in that sense? Like, how do you help people determine that?
Indira: So as far as I – I don’t really censor myself in the sense of, like, feeling that I give away too much. I would say, if you give away a lot, your audience should feel like, “Man, if she’s giving this much away for free then the paid content is probably lit…” you know what I mean? So that’s my perspective on giving away a lot. I think that it sets you apart in the marketplace because so many people are doing the opposite of that, giving fluff and things that people can’t actually implement and take action on, that it actually sets you apart. People want to look good around their colleagues, their friends, their associates, so if you’re giving them things that makes them look smart by being connected with your content then, of course, they’re going to share it without you necessarily having to beg them to do so. So I think that the balance becomes when you are giving that type of content, that rich content, make sure that you have a call to action. For me, from what I’ve seen working with women entrepreneurs, it’s not necessarily that they give away too much content. It’s that they give away too much content and then they don’t have a call to action or they don’t go forward with the close. And that’s what makes the vibe, like, off-center. If you’re leading with so much content because you’re scared to ask for the close or you’re scared to do a call to action, then that’s something different.
But if I’m giving you a whole bunch of value and, you know, my content, I know if you implement it you’ll get results, I’m coming through. I’m going to ask for the sales. I’m going to ask you to like, I’m going to ask you to share, I’m going to ask for your email; whatever it is, whatever my call to action is. But that’s what I find, that it’s not really like people give away too much information, it’s that they give away a lot of information out of a fear or a lack of confidence, and then when they give all this information, there’s no call to action. They don’t go forward with the close and then they basically have trained people to expect to get a whole bunch of stuff from them for free. And so then, when you try to sell to them later, it’s kind of like, oh no, you’re friend-zoned, basically. “We didn’t have that type of relationship from before. Why are you trying to ask me for money now?” type of thing.
Brooke: Yeah, okay, that makes sense. And I’ve heard that a lot from other people too where I just think, like, oh my gosh. You know, the more you give, the more you receive is kind of how I feel about it, and I haven’t always felt that way. I’ve always kind of buttoned things up around certain areas. But I do truly believe that when you really are showing up and you’re giving value to people, regardless of whether they know something or if you’ve already taught it or you talked about it in a podcast or whatever it is, likely they’re going to want more or figure out, okay how do I implement it, or they need support or whatever. So being scared to give too much, that’s almost telling the universe there’s too much out there or there’s not enough, there’s a lack of something, kind of thing.
Brooke: So I love that. The other question that I was going to ask, because I think this is one of the biggest struggles that almost everyone has, especially in an online space right now. So if there are people out there that are selling anything, really anything – like I see this in my business where if we’re making phone calls and we’re talking to people, you can have a great conversation. You can have someone who’s retired that wants to sit on the phone with you for 45 minutes and tell them their life story, but then when it comes to actually asking them for the appointment or asking them for, you know, their business at a face to face appointment, or even in the online space now, it’s so easy to just get busy, get busy in this content creation mode, but you don’t have a call to action. You’re not asking for anything.
Brooke: So how do you help people get over that ask. I have incredible relationship builders. There’s a lot of people out there giving incredible insight and information, but it’s like, then what?
Indira: I think that falls back to, you know, you have to really reframe and remember that selling is service, so how could you not ask? I think, a lot of times when people fail to do the call to action or they fail to go forward with their sales offer is because they’re internalizing the situation. The person is doing something for me, when in actuality, you are doing something for them. You’re offering them a service. So it’s like, if you stay quiet, you’re cheating them of the service that you offer. And so it’s really just a matter of a reframe in your mind and remembering, like, what you have to offer is good. What you have to offer is of service to that person, it’s going to help them. Yes, you know, you make money off of it, but that is a byproduct of you being in a position to help them, in whatever capacity it is. So if you don’t ask, in essence, it’s kind of like you cheating that person not yourself, because they don’t get the opportunity to go forward. If they say no, they say no, but at least you offered it. It’s a service, you know what I mean?
Brooke: And also, I think it’s the same with products too. If we just listen more, you’re right, it is all mindset. It’s all in our head. If someone says no to a product, they’re not saying no to you, they’re just saying, “I don’t need this product right now…” or, “I’m not quite ready.” I just was talking about this; no doesn’t mean no. that just means that they’re not ready. So what other tools, what other resources, when would be a good time if it’s just the timing, rather than being like, oh my gosh, you’re in your head, and I suck, I failed. This person doesn’t like me, when that’s really not the case. Like, if you’re selling a face cream that’s like magic in a freaking bottle and it’s changed your life, you’d be screaming it from the rooftop, like oh my gosh, this thing got rid of like all my wrinkles in a day. Why wouldn’t you want to help give that to other people? I’ve changed my mindset a lot in, basically, how can I help? Like, how can I help someone? And if I see a place where I know that I can help, that’s so much easier than saying, like, I’m selling them on this or I’m taking their money or whatever it may be. But I guess you do some of that. So mindset is a huge one and also, I do feel like you need to believe in what you’re selling as well.
Indira: Of course, of course, because if you believe in what you’re selling then you know it’s going to help somebody. And so a lot of times, when people are not comfortable with sales it’s because either they don’t feel confident in their ability to sell or they don’t have confidence in the service or product that they’re actually selling. Both of those things are needed for you to really be able to nail it in your sales conversations and in your offers and stuff like that because sometimes you’ll get on a call, and if it’s a phone call or even face to face, and something’s just kind of off in the conversation because you can’t really get your energy behind something that you don’t really have confidence in that you don’t believe actually works. So that has a big part to play in the sales process as well, definitely, for sure.
Brooke: What are some of the best tools that you’ve had with gaining confidence?
Indira: Well, to be honest, in the beginning it was kind of like you do it afraid. And then you do it afraid, but then you also detach from outcomes, like we talked about before. Like, I’m not going to take a no personally. I take no to mean not right now. And so initially, what happens is when you first get started, you might hear no more often, then as you gain more experience, you’ll hear it less and less and so your confidence just naturally builds. I mean, it’s just like a phrase I say all the time, “It’s always awkward before it’s elegant.” So it’s kind of like, you’ve got to start from somewhere…
Brooke: You’ve got to start somewhere…
Indira: You’ve got to start somewhere, so if sales has been something of a stumbling block for you in the past, you know, you have to give it the same amount of time that you gave yourself to believe that you couldn’t do it. Like, give yourself that same amount of time to change into a better situation. But for me, confidence has come through, depending on the industry, but if it’s like a physical product or something like that, it comes from actually being a product, or my product, using the stuff, being familiar with the things. If we’re talking like online industries, really not trying to put people through a process that I have not been through myself, so having integrity in what I’m selling and what I’m offering. I’m not asking people to do things that I myself have not done. So all of those things make me able to come to the situation with confidence because it’s like I don’t feel like I’ve done anything moral-wise and integrity-wise where I’m off. So if they don’t want it then it just means it’s not right now. And then as time has gone on and gone on and gone on, now I’ve gotten to the point where I have a lot of confidence in myself. So it’s just one of those things like working out, it’s a muscle. You know, confidence is like a muscle. When you first start working out, you don’t necessarily see results…
Brooke: And it can hurt a little bit the next day.
Indira: But if you stick with it, after a while, you’ll start to see definition in your body and you’ll just show up even better. So it’s the same. Confidence is just like any other muscle that we workout. Like, the more you do it, the better it gets pretty much.
Brooke: Yeah, you have to do it. You have to do the work.
Brooke: Well thank you. I so appreciate you being here with me today. Do you have anything else that you want to add to our listeners right now about just sales in general? Any tips that we didn’t cover yet?
Indira: I would say the main thing right now, I would say everyone’s niche – everyone complains that their niche is oversaturated. Everyone, like health, business, real estate…
Indira: Right, and so one of the things that you can so to make yourself be a good salesperson is to focus on things that are going to help you stand apart. That automatically attracts people to you as opposed to you having to be the one to chase them. So if you see – have you ever read the book The Purple Cow by Seth Godin? So he talked about how you can take a regular experience and how can you make it different, you know? And based on making things different and standing apart, that is how you naturally, you know, become an expert at sales. So that would be, I think, the one step that we haven’t really talked about; look for those areas. Definitely not a lot of people are consistent.
So we touched on that consistency is key, but also look and see, what are the things, what are your personal life experiences, because nobody can be you but you, right. So what are your personal life experiences that you have? What are things that make you different than what is currently out there? The things that set you apart, focus on those things, talk about those things, share those things and your people will be attracted to that authenticity and the fact that it’s different than what they’re actually hearing.
Brooke: I was literally just thinking about this this morning and it’s so funny that you bring it up because you can get so bogged down with this question of what’s your niche and there are so many people out here. And oftentimes too, within our society, it’s this norm within society to fit in. like, you don’t want to stand out. And then it’s almost like reverse engineering it to figure out, like, what does make me different or what does make me special or what’s that – which that sometimes can be a hard question to answer when you’re in it.
Indira: Because it’s right in front of your face, you don’t see it because it comes so naturally to you that you’re like…
Brooke: That’s it?
Indira: That’s it? Yeah, but the stuff that people are asking you to do, the things that people are asking you for advice, friends, family members and stuff like that, that they know, “I need to call Brooke for this…” or, “I need to ask Indira about this, those are usually the things that set you apart. If I had to start anywhere, that’s where I would start.
Brooke: Awesome, awesome advice. Thank you so much again for being here with us. So you have an awesome little sales training. It’s a masterclass, correct?
Indira: Yes, I have a masterclass called Rise Above the Sea of Sameness and get Sales. And it basically goes into – it’s a little bit over an hour long training where it basically shows you the things that you can do with your everyday experiences, what about them makes you stand apart? Using what you already know, what you already have, how can you utilize that to stand apart in a crowded sea of sameness?
Brooke: I love that, I’m going to check it out. So where can we all find that – and it’s totally free, right?
Indira: Yeah, it’s totally free. You can register for it at indirapierrot.com/ssmasterclass.
Brooke: And we’ll put this in the show notes as well so you guys can all grab the link to that and check it out. I’m sure it is an incredible training that I will also be checking out as well. And so much needed in this space that we’re in, if anybody’s into online business, this is everyone’s challenge; everyone’s challenge.
Indira: Yes, it is, and I’ve really enjoyed being here today and talking with you. I really enjoyed it.
Brooke: Well thank you so much. I hope you all enjoyed it. I’m sure that they did. Thank you so much for tuning into this week’s episode of the Love Your Living podcast. Go grab yourself a copy of Indira’s freebie on how to stand out in the sea of sameness.
Thanks for showing up and listening to this week’s episode of Love Your Living. If you’re ready to create a business and life you love, or simply take your already pretty incredible life to the next level, head over to loveyourlivingonline.com/balance to download our five-step guide creating more balance in your life.